A Dream of Martyrdom and God’s Judgment on the World
“I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.” Joel 2:28NIV
It was a Sunday morning in 2003 when I awoke from the most vivid dream I have ever dreamt in my life. It was the sort of dream where you wonder if you have actually awakened from it; the kind that stays with you for the next few days.
This was no ordinary dream for me. It has remained with me in its entirety since I experienced it.
I am usually the type of person that looks a bit skeptically at the “dreams and visions” of others. I did not grow up in a “charismatic” faction of Christian faith and practice. Naturally, I proceed with caution when examining the spiritual experiences of others.
So, as a disclaimer, you must know that I consider myself a level-headed person that has tendencies to choose logic over faith; the objective over the subjective; empirical evidence over personal experience.
I was never encouraged to seek out dreams or visions from the Lord. This one was thrusted upon me and lives with me everyday. I would be a fool to ignore it. Therefore, I can’t help but believe it to have some level of truth in reality.
I often casually joke about my death with others who know me, but I assure you it is no joke to me. It shapes my entire view of the present and the days to come.
I see my life leading up to this event. Sure, it could be that this dream will not have a full and literal fulfillment. I know others may want to interpret it, and they will. No matter what others may say or think about my dream, for me it has already happened.
Back to the dream…
I crawled out of bed and started getting ready for the morning. I was a youth pastor at a small church in a small East Texas town. We lived right next to the church building. I quickly got my stuff together and rushed over to the youth department to prepare for that morning’s many activities.
This entire time the dream was on my mind, but I didn’t have time to think about it because I had responsibilities to carry out. And so I did my thing and postponed further reflection until I had a moment of stillness.
Later that morning when all of my duties had been fulfilled, I sat in my chair next to my wife to listen to the sermon. In the beginning I was listening and then my mind began to drift back to my dream. I slowly began to see my dream play over again in my head. I left myself for a moment and began to relive the dream from the night before.
What did I see? What did it mean? It wasn’t a long dream, but it was enough.
In my dream I am walking with a group of men. From what I remember, there were no women and children with us. We were in a concentration camp of some kind. I don’t remember seeing barbed wire and all that you can imagine would fit the description, but I do remember the soldiers. I do not know whose soldiers they were. But I am certain they were not Nazis.
I was living in the modern world and was experiencing something in the future.
I was walking with a group of men in a single-file line. There was no noise or any talking, only the sound of footsteps in the sand and gravel. We were walking toward a building. Soldiers were shoulder to shoulder on our left. They had weapons, but they were not doing anything. They just watched us walking toward the building.
We walked into a large building through large iron double-doors. I know they were iron because I remember the sound they made when they closed behind us. The doors closed with a loud creak and “CLANG!” I heard the shuffling of feet, as all of us men were crowded together. I heard the faint whimpering of someone close. I felt the moment building as the sound of something turned on and the high-pitched noise grew louder.
Fear started to come up against me and then at the climax of the sound I saw a bright light. It wasn’t a tunnel with a light at the end. The light illuminated the room and then there was a peace that came over me—then silence.
That was when I awoke from the dream.
Something seemed to be missing though. As I was reflecting on the entire dream and within myself asking the Lord, “What does this mean?” I went back to the moment in the dream where we were coming up to the doors of the building and were about to walk inside. I could see something else.
As we were approaching the doors there were soldiers to the left seeing to it that we walked quietly inside. Then I could see us laying open Bibles at their feet. We laid the open Scripture at their feet and walked in quietly. As I reflected, I was wondering what this was about. I looked more intently and the Lord showed me that the Bibles were open to the book of Malachi.
“Malachi?” I thought to myself. All I could remember from the prophet Malachi was that God hates divorce and something about giving the tithe. Of course I knew it was the last book of the Old Testament.
The next year I would translate Malachi in my Hebrew class. But at that time I didn’t really know anything off the top of my head that could shed some light on my dream.
As the service continued around me, I quickly turned to the book of Malachi. I was certain not to be noticed by others that anything was out of the ordinary.
I started with the first chapter in Malachi. The book only has four chapters so it wasn’t going to take me long to find out whether or not this dream had a supernatural origin or if it was an invention of my own neurological processes during sleep. I began reading at verse one. I read the entire first chapter. Nothing! So I kept reading.
In the first three chapters there was nothing that had any relevant connection to my dream. It wasn’t until I began reading the fourth and final chapter. My heart about stopped as my eyes moved from one word to the next. This is what I read…
“Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them. But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things,” says the LORD Almighty.” Malachi 4:1-3 NIV
At that moment I knew that my mind had not conjured up some twisted thoughts resulting from my knowledge of WWII or my past viewing of Schindler’s List. This dream definitely had the signature of God all over it. How exactly did I interpret this dream in that moment?
It was very clear to me.
Those men who were laying this Scripture at the feet of the soldiers were humbly pronouncing the judgment of God that would soon “burn like a furnace.” As we were being led to our death in this “furnace” we were declaring our hope in the Lord.
We were saying, “We will give our lives in this fire, but you need to know that the day is coming when the Lord will overcome the wicked and exalt those who revere his name. He will trample down the wicked and they will be the ashes under the soles of our feet. This is the word of the Lord God Almighty.”
I believe the Lord has led me to share this dream with you. I pray that it will be an encouragement to those of us who have been called by His name to be a testimony of Jesus Christ. For those that do not know Jesus as the resurrection and life, I pray you will consider the word of our Lord. Lord, bless your church in this final hour.
“Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser (i.e. Satan) of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.” Revelation 12:10-11 NIV
D.D. Flowers, 2008.
December 7th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
What intrigues me is wondering what made you decide TODAY to share this on your blog. Something must have triggered afresh this memory…what was it?
December 7th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
As I have told those who receive my blog updates by e-mail… I have been intending to share this since November. I had the time to share and felt like others needed to hear it. I pray the Lord will use it for his glory.
December 8th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Thank you brother for sharing!
December 10th, 2008 at 1:33 am
I am very grateful that you shared this David… I actually had a dream about 13 years ago that was strikingly similar… It too was the only dream I ever had that felt so “significant” like you described, that what I was seeing and experiencing was not originating in my imagination. In my dream, I was in a single file line, inside what seemed to be some huge, modern structure, with lots of glass and steel, like the lobby of some corporate high-rise or something. Oddly, all of us “prisoners” were wearing white robes. One by one, we were ushered into to some giant stainless steel machine. Once the door was closed behind me, I had to crawl down a narrow passage-way, until it opened up slightly. There, I was in a small chamber, to low to stand up in, made completely of stainless steel, like the inside of a giant microwave. As the machine “turned on” I knew I was being cooked alive, and was stricken with fear, but strangely, there was no pain. I looked up to see someone I knew, inside the chamber with me, and his flesh was sort of melting off his body, like something in a bad sci-fi movie. He looked up at me, in the eyes, which somehow communicated to me that all of this was very profound, very serious, and signifying something very real in the future (and like I said, I’d never had a dream like that, before or since) I woke up soaked in sweat, and have only ever shared this dream with my wife, up till now.
Ultimately, I don’t know either if this was a literal depiction of the future, or more metaphorical, but either, it burned into my soul that there is coming a very real, very trying time for those of us who follow the Lamb of God… Thank you for sharing.
December 10th, 2008 at 2:19 am
We both see the Lord is speaking to his people. Some find it disquieting… I believe it is sobering. May the Lord prepare us for what is to come. Riches blessings in Christ, my brother. Thank YOU for sharing your own dream. I pray many more will share what Christ has revealed to them. Peace.
December 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
This text out of Malachi you apparently connected with your dream seems to be a misapplication. If you continue reading, this text is about the coming of John the Baptist. Not sure you should make the leap you did.
December 11th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Casey, I don’t mean any disrespect. I have a degree in religion and an emphasis in biblical studies. I am fully aware of how hermeneutics work. I have taught a course on it. Which means I am also familiar with how the Scripture is used in many ways other than its original meaning. One look at Matthew’s Gospel and his usage of the Old Testament proves that the Lord uses his Word however he sees fit. (On top of that… it is not agreed that the following verses speak of John the Baptist. Even still, I don’t see how this nullifies the dream. The rest of the chapter only adds to the coming of God’s judgment.)
Nevertheless, I did not seek out this passage in Malachi. I wrote that this was in my dream. I had never read it before… to my knowledge. If I had read it years before… I certainly didn’t remember it. You can be the judge of whether or not this dream is from the Lord or something my subconscious mind invented while sleeping. What troubles me more than some sort of “misapplication” of Scripture… is that your concern stands in the way of you gaining from this dream what the Lord has clearly communicated throughout the entire Bible.
Malachi 4 speaks of God’s judgment any way you look at it. It had significance when it was written, in the day of Jesus, and today as well. I hope that your concern for proper biblical interpretation does not cloud your spiritual vision. I personally take issue with those who carelessly proof-text passages and cut and paste Scripture to fit their agenda. I assure you this is nothing of the sort. I have simply reported my dream to those who would take the time to read. I made no effort to make my dream in someway biblical by isolating a passage in Malachi. I read the book, particularly chapter four, and found it to be consistent with the message and events in my dream.
As I said, people will have their opinions about it. I’m just telling you of a dream that I believe came from God and was confirmed by Malachi 4:1-3; a passage that I was not familiar with in the past. I was never a person who sought out dreams or tried to find secret messages in everything that moved. But for me… there is no denying that this dream was from God and that it was confirmed by these few verses in Malachi… verses that foretold of God’s judgment in language that corresponded exactly to the events in my dream. Had I gone looking through the Scripture on my own to find these chilling verses… that’s one thing. But for God to show me Malachi in my dream and then for me to go and read this passage I did not know…. well… there is only one response for me.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Fair enough. I see we come from different traditions so I assume we will look at dreams differently. The content of your dream is theologically accurate, it just seems your exegesis of Malachi is a bit messy. I am talking as one studier of God’s word to another. It seems that if you say your dream is consistent and on par with Malachi, you are implying that God has given you special revelation. I have not read all various interpretations of Malachi but the most obvious seems to imply that this text is referring to the coming of Christ and the coming of John the Baptist, not necessarily the final judgment. However, if your dream is on par with the revelation given to Malachi, then we must canonize this dream.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Which tradition is that?
Special revelation? That seems to be a bit of a jump. I do think you should read my post and the book of Malachi again.
“if your dream is on par with the revelation given to Malachi, then we must canonize this dream”… I don’t follow this logic at all. Does the Lord not continue to reveal his Word through the dreams and visions of his people today?
Casey, I’m really not interested in squabbling over the text. I have come out of (left, moving away) that tradition that wants to hail the Bible itself as God. It would appear that you should reconsider your own understanding of Scripture… or find a blog that is concerned about textual criticism and that believes the Bible is an end of itself. My desire is to move past these words on the page, not stop short of Christ and the beauty of the Scriptures for a religion that worships the biblical text. That may seem like a stretch… but I’m convinced that is just what many Christians have done to the Bible. We have placed rules on how God speaks. We have moved past a verifiable and consistent method of biblical interpretation and created divisions in the Body based off our biblical traditions and what we find as “orthodox.” I find this deeply disturbing that we are telling God how he can and cannot speak.
Once you are ready to move off this point… I am interested to hear what you think about the dream.
December 13th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
What do you think about this interpretation? Here is a response I received:
“Your dream, indeed, is of spiritual origin and that of goodness. A souls dream is merely a reflection of the self, but a spiritual dream carries with it a spiritual reality and must be warranted a spiritual consideration. I know that your dream originated from the spirit because you say that it felt real and the fact that you remembered it vividly. In a soul dream very rarely will one remember or does it affect a person’s disposition the way this dream had done so for you.
Listen, and with the guidance of our Father I will show you what this dream means.
You walked with men for this reason: These men symbolize the spiritually mature ones. For you to be walking alongside these men, shows that you cling to the spiritually mature and follow a similar path such as they. The concentration camp symbolizes the oppression of the world around you that suppresses the truth which you men were incarcerated for. The soldiers are the forces of the evil one. They cannot touch you because of your status. They only mean to control you through intimidation, thus they show their force by allowing you to see their weapons.
The soldiers aligned on the left of you because they assume weakness to be to your left.
The large building that you walked into from the iron doors is this: The Building is what you have been accused of being. It is the “religious box” they have labeled you with. The iron doors are the doors of Religious Law. You men stepping through those doors symbolize that your persecutors are locking up all your ideas into a new religion. You heard the CLANG because it is the nature of the ‘iron’ grip of religion to capitalize on another’s convictions. The shuffling of feet are those of people who will be affected by the religion and also the whimpering of someone close is actually part of you realizing what just happened.
This something that turned on, was the power grid [the core truth of the gospel you preach]. As this noise became louder it drowned out the sound of the feet and the whimpering for this sound was the sound of the absolute truth devastating the oppressor’s stronghold. The bright light is the testimony of Jesus which illuminates with the truth being spoken [the loud sound]. The peace and silence that came over you is when you realized that your job was over and that Jesus Christ had vindicated His servants giving you peace and rest in the light of His Word.
When you recalled the book of Malachi and noticed that verse of scripture, the purpose of the dream was revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. Thus Malachi symbolizes the end of the message. The name Malachi means my messenger or my angel. When you sat the book at the feet of the soldiers you where giving your persecutors the message humbly and peacefully…God honored this and came to vindicate you through the light of His Word. Those who sow in peace will reap a harvest of righteousness.”
I’m still inclined to believe my dream will in some way be realized literally. I don’t believe it was all symbolic. I do appreciate this brother taking the time to comment.
December 13th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
All dreams are symbols that point to a literal manifestation. The brother that interpreted your dream recognizes that its meaning is literal, but does not neglect the fact that all spiritual dreams are symbolic. Look through scripture and find a dream that is not symbolic in nature: Jacob, Joseph, Pharoh, Nebechanezzar, Peter, ect..They are all symbols. Dreams are always symbols I’m convinced. The literal manifestation is acquired through understanding the spiritual correspondances. The brother’s interpretation looks authentically spiritual and it would be to all of our benefit to heed its message. And praise Jesus for the truth found in its revealing.
December 14th, 2008 at 5:54 am
Thanks for commenting. I am very familiar with the dreams of men in the Scriptures. But where do you see that the commentator recognizes a literal interpretation. I saw a completely symbolic and analogous interpretation from what he said. Help me understand what you both mean.
I have understood this dream to be literal as well as spiritual from the moment I woke from my sleep. Furthermore, the dreams in the Old Testament were very weird and apocalyptic in nature. It would be ridiculous to interpret them literally. This is why they needed someone to interpret them. Without some interpretation from a prophet or seer… it seemed almost impossible to know its meaning.
Why is it less spiritual to understand MY dream as being strictly literal? Is it less spiritual to see my dream as a vision of what is to come in my own life? Why is it not enough to see this as a simple dream of martyrdom and God’s judgment on the world?
December 14th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Hey David, Let me try to explain this better. All dreams are figurative, because they have to be; it’s their nature. They are all symbols of ‘literal’ things. That is the way the spirit communicates with the mind.
The brother who revealed your dream to you, gave you a ‘literal’ interpretation of the ‘symbols’ in your dream. You will recognize how literal the dream is as you are going through these moments in your life. Just like Joseph realized the truth of his dream: Sun, moon, stars bowing down to him. It was symbolic of Him ruling over his family someday. Notice how the dream was figurative with a literal interpretation. And so it is with your dream. It’s meaning is literal. The ‘pictures’ in your dream are not literal. I promise you that.
It does not matter who dreams the dream, all spiritual dreams come from the same God. Also the man’s spirit and mind are the same as they were since Adam and Eve, and so goes the process by which we dream.
December 14th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
[quote/]Why is it less spiritual to understand MY dream as being strictly literal? Is it less spiritual to see my dream as a vision of what is to come in my own life? Why is it not enough to see this as a simple dream of martyrdom and God’s judgment on the world?[quote]
Allow me to answer this also. You are not actually interpreting the dream if you take it literally. Futhermore, this has nothing to do with spirituality. Dreams are given to everyone, spiritual and soulish.
Your dream is about martyrdom and God’s judgment on the world. But this too was revealed in that other interpretation, and through that verse in Malachi. Either way you take it, the Lord has revealed to you the meaning of the dream through a corresponding verse in Malachi. Does this not confirm exactly what you suspected in your heart to be true?
Your dream is a true dream and personable and it, obviously, was given so that you could understand more precisely what it means to be a martyr [one who testifies].
I had a dream last year in Iraq, I was in the outer court of the temple yard. I was down on my knees praying to God, and a huge blade lobbed off my head from above. Then I went to the inner court and received a new head. After praying again in the inner court, I received a new body. Then I went into the holy of holies and saw Jesus.
It simply corresponded to my attitude as a martyr. The outer court was that place where my persecuters could assail me. And the blade from above was the Lord taking away my mental ascension to His Word and believing with my heart and not just my head. So thereafter, I was able to go further into the temple, leaving behind my persecuters. I received a new head that symbolized the mind of Christ and soon my body was transformed. I then entered the holy of holies and there I saw my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
December 14th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
What do you mean by “the pictures are not literal.” I appreciate you further explaining where you are coming from. Let me give this some more thought. I have some reservations about some things you have written. Particularly, that “all” dreams are symbolic. I enjoyed reading about your dream. Please give me some time to think it over and seek the Lord about it. I like some of the things you are saying and I can see their biblical foundations. I do wonder why the Lord would give me a dream that I have understood as spiritual and literal… to discover five years later that the dream was completely symbolic. Thanks for your patience.
December 14th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Certainly brother, I completely understand. It is your dream and so it will need your full understanding. I don’t think you are misleading yourself by looking at it literaly. It was a dream given to you and so you have the freedom to learn from it as God wills.
December 15th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Well, you certainly know my history in certain “charismatic” churches so I don’t need to rehash that history. And, I’m not going to hold myself out as an authority on either scripture or theological relevance of dreams and visions. I’m pretty much just a simple guy who’s been through an awful lot the past few years and has only recently begun to understand the grace and love of the Father and how deep his concern for ME goes.
What I do know is this — in the end I don’t know that it matters whether or not your dream literally comes to pass. That doesn’t make it any less real. After all, you’re not promoting yourself as a prophet, you’re only relating something that was very real to you both at the time you had the dream and even all these years later.
I think in squabbling over whether or not your interpretation of the dream in light of scripture is too literal (or whatever the argument is) misses the point. The point, in my view, is ultimately that God may be preparing his Church — his people — for that day that we all agree is coming. Do we really need to debate each other on whether or not God revealed himself in this dream using the correct book, chapter and verse? To do so is harmful I think.
Of course, this is all just my opinion. But, I for one appreciate the dream. I appreciate its meaning literal or metaphoric. It is encouraging to me in these days of uncertainty.
Thanks for sharing it, David.
December 16th, 2008 at 3:58 am
Thanks for the encouraging word bro!
December 17th, 2008 at 2:53 am
Your dream is obviously very personal. Thank you for taking the risk and sharing it. For others to quickly assume they can interpret it, is a far stretch. It may be the interpretation is as unique as the dream. God bless.
December 17th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
interesting dream. have had similar and have been interested in dreams as a means of how the Lord speaks to us. Had a dream several years ago that was very specific and I wrote it down had no clue to what it meant but a year later the dream became a reality. There were things in the dream that were symbolic and things that were literal. but when it came to pass there was no doubt it was a fullfillment of that dream. This came as a huge confirmation that God was with me in this instance and I needed to know that to go through this situation. Since then when I have a vivid dream I write them down and if the interpretation isn’t there at the time I suspect it will come later.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
have you read any books by Brian Mclaren or Bart Ehrman, they are quite good
December 18th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
I have read some Brian McLaren. I have not read Bart Ehrman. What do you suggest?
December 18th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
David, thank you so much for your courage in sharing such a personal thing. I agree with your interpretation. For many years I’ve had a strong conviction that we will see martyrdoms in the West again. Am hesitant to share this, but do so because I think the majority of Christians have little idea what is coming and given half the chance, would bury their heads in the sand if they could. So it’s a possible confirmation of what you have written, as well as a warning to some, as well as a call to be on the watch and be prepared for His coming, or persecution if He permits.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Thank you Frances! I appreciate the word you share. I am encouraged to know the Lord is speaking to the church here in the States.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Avoid McLaren, and look to a Brennan Manning or Jim Palmer.. Jim Palmer wrote a book called Divine Nobodies thats great. And Manning is just incredible all around. McLaren comes from the Emergent Village camp and while I have read several of his books, you will find the focus off balance… Not trying to trash him, just saying I think Palmer, Manning, Miller, or Batterson would be more to your liking… I could be wrong!
Have a great day!
December 19th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I am familiar with the guys you mentioned. I was wanting to know about Bart Ehrman. What books of his do you have in mind?
December 26th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Wow…Great post..Great blog…I love all i’m seeing..Will definitely come back again and again
I will like if you could check out my blog on http://spiritofjesus.blogspot.com You can also add it to your blogroll. I will add yours to mine now
May 1st, 2009 at 2:00 am
“I had a dream last year in Iraq, I was in the outer court of the temple yard. I was down on my knees praying to God, and a huge blade lobbed off my head from above. Then I went to the inner court and received a new head. After praying again in the inner court, I received a new body. Then I went into the holy of holies and saw Jesus.”
Note in the scriptures that most, if not all, of the people who had a dream did not know the meaning. Frequently, they asked for, and received, interpretation. Somehow we got the idea that something figurative that points to spiritual is less “real” than something that specifically occurs in the natural. Sometimes it is both. Israel passed through the Red Sea, was fed manna and drank water from the rock. All significant natural miracles. Yet, are we to say that the spiritual fulfillment in Christ that they were similitudes for are somehow less “real.” The answer depends on whether or not you have experienced them personally. Once you have they are very real indeed.
Polycarp has a dream three days before his arrest of awakening with his pillow on fire. When he was threatened with being thrown to wild beasts he had no fear. Then, he was burned at the stake. In John, Jesus describing the coming of the Holy Spirit, says “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. Joh 16:13”
He does this in many ways, however, it appears to me that His purpose is not to enable us to understand what is to come before it happens, but rather to give us a heads up so that the dream will be interpreted by the event when it happens. Once again, John quotes Jesus regarding this.
(29) “And now I have told you before it comes to pass, that when it comes to pass, you may believe.
The Lord rarely seems to want us to understand the details of what is to come, for then we are leaning on our own understanding. Rather, He desires us to remain in a state of faith so that we learn to trust Him in all situations, in all things, regardless of how things may appear to us. Examples of this in scripture to too numerous to list.
As to the dream in Iraq, quoted above, I am quite certain this is of the Lord and is a very great and precious promise. Do a study of the scriptures as to who attains to the first resurrection. It’s in Revelation, though Paul referred to it several times as well.
And, after reading a bit of David’s testimony, it looks like he has already tested some refining fire in one sense.
October 4th, 2009 at 9:01 am
I need to follow up on my comment from all those months ago… I said McLaren was someone to be avoided. In the past several months I’ve gotten to know Brian. He has been the most gracious and Christlike example of a servant that I’ve seen in my life. I thank God for him. The issues I took with his ministry were founded upon half truths and assumptions. Brian doesn’t speak the language of religion, he speaks the language of people and of love and for that reason he has my respect and admiration. Please don’t shut anyone in the body of Christ out, even if there are a few disagreements. Use discernment and seek as much as possible. McLaren is a great author and I highly recommend him to you.
October 4th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Thanks, Tim. I have read several of McLaren’s books and listened to some of his messages. I agree with you. However, I wouldn’t say he is “someone to be avoided.”
We all have blind spots. I believe his blind spots aren’t any worse than mine. I recommend him to others as well. Thanks again for stopping by the blog.
October 6th, 2009 at 5:22 am
Yeah that’s what I’m saying… He is not someone to be avoided. I said that in a comment 9 months ago and spoke ignorantly. Peace!
October 6th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Oh, I see what you’re saying. Thanks for the word!